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parrotputz
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Posted - 11/28/2011 :  15:51:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Reply to Topic
Changed my user name, in the hopes of being
more incognito...formerly leruok.

I hope it works.

Davids post...alone vs. being lonely, really
got my mind going.
The main point...quality relationships, or, living
with another for the sake of not
being alone...makes me think.
For me, this difference, is all about emotional honesty.
I know so many people in relationships, who
are actually, very alone.
There seems to be no connectedness there, and
it seems to be all about convienence, or
sexual gratification.

I know this works for some people, but for
me, there has to be emotional connection
in my relationship...or I'm not going
to be happy.

I ask myself...is this what I
am doing, is this what W is doing?

I don't think it ever hurts to stop and
analyze a relationship, to work out the
kinks so to speak, to try and sure
up the weak areas...although, no relationship
is ever going to be perfect.

To me, in a relationship, quality goes
hand in hand with honesty.
I don't see how a person can have one without
the other.

I can't speak for W...and can only ask
myself...how honest am I in my
relationship...emotionally?
Am I shortchanging him...or myself?
EEEEEeeee, scary stuff.

I need to think more about it.







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jodartha
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Posted - 11/29/2011 :  06:22:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Reply to Topic
Parrot...
I do not like your new name as it seems to insult you...but your words are golden. I agree completely

Jody
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XaosLord
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Posted - 11/29/2011 :  09:58:22  Show Profile  Visit XaosLord's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Reply to Topic
Can't say I am thrilled about the name, either, but...

It's really sort of irrelevant, as we are more than the names we choose, yes?

It is extremely hard to hold up that mirror and take a good, long look. Most of us lack the courage to do that fearlessly and without regret.

It's even harder when we are not well; perceptions are skewed and outside influences hold sway. We often have to deal with people who know nothing of what we experience and have no frame of reference in terms of addressing our needs.

Objectivity goes right out the window.

I think honesty is certainly a key factor in any relationship, whether it be a personal one or in the workplace. Things aren't going to go well without it.

But I think there has to be emotional availability as well. My grandparents, for example, were married for 50 years. Now, that sounds wonderful, except that the only emotions I ever saw displayed by either of them were anger and hate. Never love. Never once.

So...longevity vs. quality. I'd much rather have a relationship that lasted 6 months and left me totally breathless than a 50 year one I grew to despise.

And when I say "breathless", I mean the kind of emotional honesty and intensity that leaves you shaking and sobbing in the corner out of sheer joy.

Alas, most people will never experience that, simply because it is so hard to hold up that mirror to themselves and to each other. It seems to me that if we would know each other, we must first know ourselves. And to do that, we must fearlessly, brutally look deep and not be repelled by what we find. It's hard, I know. And I can't say with honesty that I have succeeded in this myself, because I have not. Oh, I have been able to look pretty hard at myself and in that way, gain insight, but as far as a partner goes...no.

My history is that of being with people who are emotionally disconnected from the rest of the world. Sociopaths? Could well be.

So, while I was willing to gaze into the abyss, others were not and things began to break down over time, because it was like we were suddenly speaking different languages. And so, I spent a great deal of time being absolutely alone in rooms full of people. I spent time being alone in my relationships. I was not connected to them and they were not connected to anything.

I am not convinced anyone other than those of us who are heavily emotionally driven will ever understand what it means. I am not certain that anyone who is not, to some degree, unwell can possibly understand.





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parrotputz
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Posted - 11/29/2011 :  13:47:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Reply to Topic
.

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parrotputz
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Posted - 11/29/2011 :  13:56:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Reply to Topic
Still can't figure out how to upload audio.
Shucks. I'm still trying.

Techno challenged lol.


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khaz
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Posted - 11/29/2011 :  15:12:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Reply to Topic
Hi Parrotputz

I changed my name fom Fruitcake (upset people)
to Fruitcup
to Khaz.....one of my real names

Wow....what a topic

Know so many people like Erics grandparents.

Sometimes I admire my exhusband...he was in love with love and went on to 5 marriages after me and a few live in relationships.

So hard to live with someone else.
So hard to change the status quo.
So hard to communicate about needs and wants....with a rumpy old man

I stay in my marriage fo my kids and the money....thats the honest truth.

Good luck with the new name...we'll get used to it.

Sue
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parrotputz
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Posted - 11/29/2011 :  15:50:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Reply to Topic
.

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parrotputz
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Posted - 11/29/2011 :  16:24:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Reply to Topic
Oh phewy, I give up. Even video (without my image) won't
work.

Jody, Eric and Khaz...thanks for your replys.
I think after getting everyones take on it, it's
so clear that as people we are
so very different from an emotional perspective.

I can see that from my perspective my views
can be a bit limited.
I mean, I've only been with one husband
since 1989. We're opposites, and man oh war, have
we had our knock down drag outs because
of it.

I think honesty is certainly a key factor in any relationship, whether it be a personal one or in the workplace. Things aren't going to go well without it.
But I think there has to be emotional availability as well.


Eric, I think you summoned it up...emotional availability.

I see so many people that have shut down
emotionally. Maybe that scares me...maybe I just
want to yell..."wake up", because honestly, I
want people to be people, not zombies.
It's selfish, I know...but it does scare me.

But yes, with these illnesses, it can be so
confusing and complicated, not just for us, but
for people we're involved with.

The only thing I can do is stay as stable as
I can...and be as honest as I can when
it's needed.
But I know that sometimes we have to
bend, adapt, and even settle to have
stability in our lives.

Man it can be complicated.
Enough of my ramblings for now.
I hope your all well.
Love you lots.

Linda
Oh, parrotputz is a term of enderament
around this joint.
Didn't realize how it sounded.
May change it later...thx.

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metasegue
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Posted - 11/29/2011 :  16:25:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Reply to Topic
Compromise and self reinvention are prerequisites for any long term
relationship. You must give ground when necessary and gain ground
when possible. "Love Is A Battlefield"...Pat Benatar. If you are
capable of renewal, it serves two perposes: you keep your partner
interested and... off balance. It's naive to think total honesty is
the best route to take...it leaves you exposed and vulnerable to
attack. Most of us have a few emotional skeletons which, if revealed,
will most likely repel or alienate our partner. They see this image
you've projected and, in most cases, will feel decieved if you should
present a radically new one. This is not reinvention but revelation
and there are few people who can deal with abrupt clarification.

Having said all that, if two people can be as honest as possible with
each other they have an enhanced chance for survival as a team. The
key word is "possible"....self perception and social logistics limit
this attempt at personal altruism. Objective reality is elusive and
total trust is perilous. Tell them what you think they can handle and
hope for a reciprocal response.


We're only given a small spark of madness...we MUSTN'T lose it. Robin Williams
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parrotputz
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Posted - 11/29/2011 :  16:55:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Reply to Topic
Hi Keith .
Sorry, I didn't see you logged on earlier.

Now there you go, poking holes in my
idealistic way of thinking lol.

What you are saying is true, total
honesty DOES leave us vulnerable.
What if our partner decides to use it
against us, and what if it does
shatter their ILLUSION of who or what
we are?

Wise thoughts indeed.

And do we trust enough, completely...to be
completely honest?

See, I grew up with W, he and I both
knew what we where getting from the
start...to a large degree.

Again, my life experience are limited.
But, I think what happens in a relationship
is based upon unspoken ground rules.
It's vastly different for each couple.

Compromise and self reinvention are prerequisites for any long term relationship.

Brilliant. Keith, we do constantly change and so
do our partners. Either we adapt to each other, or
we end up growing apart.
I so agree.

Objective reality is elusive and
total trust is perilous.


Your so right. What happens if we are
totally emotionally honest?
Again, doesn't it depend on the partner?
Me, I don't view emotional altruism in
males as being a weakness, but thats just
me.
I view it as a strength. Other woman
may not.
It's all in the special dynamics of each
relationship I think.

Excellent post though, from a perspective
that's a bit more realistic. A little
balance doesn't hurt.

Still trying to upload voice, but don't think
it's going to happen.
My computer won't talk to MT's computer.
I think mines too old...aaaa.

Good to talk to you, and so nice
to see you post.

Linds

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jodartha
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Posted - 11/29/2011 :  17:20:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Reply to Topic
Oh I want to jump in this topic so much.

Keith you are wise. I don't think that complete honesty gets us anywhere...

From experience it can provide solid ground to build on...but it can hurt and damage as well. In any relationship I have successfully engaged in...it was more about being truthful and trustworthy that mattered most. Afterall, being betrayed is the ultimate relationship destroyer.

I don't have an eloquent way of presenting this belief, but after completely building on being more honest, more giving, more truthful, and constantly reinventing myself...I have learned one thing...finding someone else that is willing to do the same thing...and remain committed when it stops smelling like roses, is rare if not impossible.

No one is perfect. No one is going to look peachy all the time. What one can be is sincere, kind hearted, and good for their word. That is what we want our friends, family, and significant others to be. Then if you add the reinvention, you avoid becoming boring and predictable...

so if i could create what I consider are the most vital components of a long relationship of any sort...I would add:
Sincere
kind hearted
good for their word
reinventive
and loving...

I guess when it comes to even creating a relationship at all there does need to be connection..but that the spark. Nothing else matters without that.

My long term friendships all have these qualities, and when I ever terminate a relationship, it seems that one of these qualities were lacking. Honestly, before I grew up, I probably wasn't perfect at these things...but i do my best now.

It is unfortunate that it didn't translate to a romantic relationship at this point..but I guess we get wiser till we croak.

Thank you for the topic Parrot.
<3 Jody
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metasegue
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Posted - 11/29/2011 :  23:40:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Reply to Topic
Hi Par...uh, Linds,

We may have to relegate you to the schizo forums...both of you.

"What happens if we are totally emotionally honest? Doesn't it depend on the partner? Me, I don't view emotional altruism in males as being a weakness, but thats just me. I view it as a strength. Other women
may not. It's all in the special dynamics of each relationship I think."

Exactly. You are unusual in that respect. Long ago, we spoke of
the necessity for emotional armor. It's one of the things that
tripped me out about you...the recognition that one's willingness
to dispense with the armor reflected strength and courage. Of course,
I've also noticed it can reflect stupidity....

Glad you're back...whoever you think you are.



We're only given a small spark of madness...we MUSTN'T lose it. Robin Williams
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parrotputz
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Posted - 11/30/2011 :  11:18:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Reply to Topic
Hi Keith.
Yea, you know, in my experience, it's what's
we protect those most, those vulnerabilites
that lie beneath, that can be
used to hurt us the most if the info.
falls into the wrong hands.

I'm honest with W, but few others.
There is a time and place for armour lol.

But once vulnerabilies are OK and
are shared or even
acknowledged by ourselves, they can no longer
scare us or make us shift our postions
so easily.
In a sense, we are one in the relationship, no
more walls, even with ourselves. And that is a good
feeling, if we can ever get there.
That's been a goal for this kid anyway.

I appreciated everyones thoughts...thx
heaps.

Hope everyone is well and at ease
today.

Lots of love

Linda

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parrotputz
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Posted - 11/30/2011 :  13:21:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Reply to Topic
Two of my favorite all time songs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8muJIOznsg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkwJ-g0iJ6w

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XaosLord
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Posted - 11/30/2011 :  16:10:55  Show Profile  Visit XaosLord's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Reply to Topic
Linda, give this one a look...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTEWlSTQ1RI&ob=av3e
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jodartha
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Posted - 11/30/2011 :  19:13:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Reply to Topic
To date, over 1/2 of the few I have shared my vulnerabilities with have used it against me. I mean really did there best to use it against me.

For example, I have had people that were close to me...once I shared that I get depressed, have contacted my family and tried to tell them personal things about me. This is the ultimate taboo and automatically terminates the relationship. I left a husband for that...he even had the nerve to send books to my family. Most of the time, people who have a grudge, try to diagnose me and are wrong. And then they take it on themselves to cripple me and my life. Now even my family doesn't treat me the same. I practically hate that person now...as there is no greater betrayl than to violate the ONE thing I tell them they can never share.

Another example, people have taken my greatest fears and deepest thoughts and turned them against me by misstating them or reinterpreting them. It is the number one tool for emotional abuse.

I agree with Linda completely. I am to the point that I will never share my deepest thoughts again with anyone I know personally. Even the one person I trusted most in the past year, took my fears and shared private thoughts and used them to hurt me. It doesn't matter if it is unintentional...they know what they are doing. It makes me angry and want to attack...so I would say that it activates my fight or flight response...and frankly I don't feel like having to attack back.

I think that high morals and integrity are practically extinct these days...and you wonder why people lie. I know that I will never be totally open again. NEVER.
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