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Mood Disorder Community
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AusieAnna
Starting Member
22 Posts |
 Posted - 05/23/2005 : 14:11:49
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I am currently Executive Director of Mental Health Association in Essex County. It is in this capacity that I speak before you today.
In the early days of my tenure with Vermont Protection & Advocacy, I was asked to lead an effort to have the practice banned in Vermont. Knowing very little about ECT, I set out to learn what I could, in the time available before the legislative session. I read the research (both pro and con). I spoke to psychiatrists who provide this procedure to their patients, and, most importantly, I interviewed about 35 people who had directly experienced it. At the beginning of my learning experience, I had no opinion about ECT at all. Only after several discussions with people, and the review of the literature did I come to the conclusion that I will share with you today.
1. What is the efficacy of the use of ECT to break mental illness? This subject is passionately debated on both sides. Journals that purport to be scientific are published on both sides, thus it is difficult to find published articles on ECT that are objective. One article published a few years ago, in a non-partisan publication, sought to determine whether ECT led to a reduction in suicide. The article showed that not only did ECT not prevent suicide, but that ECT, medication, drugs, and neglect, all were equally effective, or ineffective, in having any impact at all. Summarily, it is my opinion that credible evidence on the efficacy of ECT is not substantially available at this time. Some people with whom I have discussed this issue, report that they have gained from the use of ECT. The vast majority (90% +/-) does not see that any good ever came from the procedure.  |
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| AusieAnna
Starting Member
22 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2005 : 14:12:59
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Testimony on Electroshock by William Sullivan, Chair, NYAPRS
Deaths do occur as a result of the procedure, whether from the insult to the brain, or a result of the anesthesia, or muscle relaxants used.
Information concerning the prevalence of such deaths has been debated over the years.
Objective research should be conducted to determine the risks.
Every person interviewed had, as his/her major complaint, loss of memory. No one person was immune from some memory loss, which they still could not retrieve. For some people, the memory loss was minimal, for others quite profound. Below are some examples reported to me:
Although all had some memory loss, there were some for whom memory loss was alarming. A woman aged about 40 told me that her mother had to move in with her because she forgot how to cook. She had lost all ability to perform even the most elementary tasks involving cooking and meal preparation, including the boiling of water.
One woman regularly loses her way when driving around a familiar neighborhood.
Several people shared their embarrassment in going shopping at the grocery store. They shared that they were unable to identify people who would greet them. Some told me that even close relatives and friends were not recognized.
One woman cannot recall giving Mother Theresa a tour of the City of Los Angeles. This woman was the director of an agency serving runaway youth at the time, and has received numerous awards for her work.
In talking to two doctors whose practice included ECT, I asked which categories of people would most likely be recommended for ECT. The response was older people and pregnant women. I asked why a grand-mal- seizure would be induced in a pregnant woman. One of the doctors told me that a grand-mal-seizure was not induced. When I challenged the doctor, he allowed that a grand-mal-seizure was indeed induced, but that the involuntary motor involvement was now minimized due to muscle relaxant drugs. |
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| CandyV
Starting Member
8 Posts
Gratitude: 1
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Posted - 05/24/2005 : 17:05:21
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I would say then at the risk of not remembering very important things its not what I would chose for myself. My family could not be that supportive in taking care of me for the rest of my life. This information has helped me understand a bit more about it. Thank you!
AusieAnna for this posting.
Candy |
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| aquamarine
Amazing Member (1000+ posts)
1238 Posts
Gratitude: 300
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Posted - 05/24/2005 : 18:02:59
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I think there is so much bad press around the use of ECT for helping depression. Talking with 35 people about there experience is hardly a controlled study. The same for finding the one study and going with it.
I have had ECT. I feel that for me for the short term it was helpful for getting a boost out of my depression. I felt much better after about the 2nd or 3rd treatment and after 7 treatments I left the hospital feeling really good for the first time in more than 2 years.
I did have a lot of memory loss at first but just for things that happened during the treatments and for some things immediately prior to or following the treatments. I do not feel it has impacted me very much in the long-term. In fact, I think my depression, and many of the medications I have taken/take, causes worse memory problems.
Unfortunately, three weeks out of the hospital I fell and broke my elbows. I became incapacitated for a long period of time and my mood crashed again...so I am unsure if ECT would have helped me achieve a sustained period of wellness.
What I do know is that I would try it again if my depression was as bad as it was when I first tried ECT. I felt it at least gave me hope that wellness was possible when nothing else seemed to help.
...Aqua |
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| fanarokt
Starting Member
1 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2005 : 20:36:00
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the worst thing that could happen to someone. my ex wife had them 9 years ago. 32 of them at her pdocs urging. she was working and had a masters degree. after the ECTs she was a vegtable for a year and now has short term memory problems, her bipolar is much worse and she has been on disability ever since. the stupid part is she still goes to the pdoc who talked her into it.
as a warning. there are people like me who never forget. i couldn't do anything while i was married to her but he made a mistake concerning me 2 years ago so now that i am divorced and it doesn't matter i am going for his licence and i am told by the medical review board if it turns i i can prove my case he is toast. and proving it will be easy.
nothing concerned with that subject will ever get anything but hostility from me |
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| blackcondor
Starting Member
7 Posts
Gratitude: 1
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Posted - 10/27/2005 : 20:43:22
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| Personally, I would never consent to having ECT. I am lucky, citalopram 20 mg works a charm when it comes to my depression. As a human being I believe the practice of ECT to be barbaric and unnecessary, especially since a couple of years ago I have heard of electro-magnetic therapy for depression where no electroshock or anaesthesia is involved. It is time to bring the mental health practice into the 21st Century. |
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| meighan
Starting Member
1 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2005 : 20:40:16
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| I was recently convinced by my pdoc that ECT was the ultimate treatment for bipolars who have tried alot of other meds. He convinced me that I should try it. I went for three treatments and have regretted it since. Not only have I suffered memory loss, but I find it hard to work with numbers now, I have difficulty finding the right words to use when I'm speaking and I am now cycling daily. Being a mixed state bipolar, its very frustrating being exttremely irritated, angry and depressed all at once. I'm afraid to be around my kids sometimes because I become so angry with no warning. I was stupid for not doing my research on this topic. I was desperate to feel better and couldn't afford my meds anymore. If you are considering ECT, please, please do alot of research before you do it. Know what it will do to your brain. |
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| ryan m.
Starting Member
5 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2006 : 17:34:09
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| Thank you for bringing this topic to forum. I have often considered ect. as a possible treatment for these types of illnesses. After reading your responses, I dont believe I will ever consider it again. Of course I would like to learn more about it. However like somone has already mentioned, past articles have been one sided. I am so sorry so many of you have seemed to suffer, not only so much frm these illnesses, but: frm this type of treatment also. My prayers are with you. I am huge believer in the right diet and exercise (of any kind), can help you feel better no matter what. Especially the routine of exercising. this was helpful thanks |
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| stile
Amazing Member (1000+ posts)
1627 Posts
Gratitude: 461
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Posted - 04/13/2007 : 00:24:32
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I have had ECT and regret it 100%. It had no long term effect on my depression and I now suffer from severe short term memory loss. I am unsure of how many treatments I had because I can remember nothing, that's right nothing, about the time during which I had ECT. I think the only time it is valid is for people who are catatonic or otherwise completely unresponsive.
This was the case for my father, who was catatonic - the ECT pulled him out of that state.
If you are considering it as a treatment for depression, consider this: the effects won't last. My mother reports that I became happy again for a period of about one week. But the irony is that I can't remember feeling happy. THis was strictly a short term response and the memory loss associated with the ECT removed any positive effect it may have had.
So please, please consider doing as much research as possible. Exhaust all other alternatives before attempting this very controversial treatment.
-stile |
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| ride the lightning
Starting Member
1 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2008 : 20:19:32
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All the negative hype on this site about E.C.T. is based on the ignorance of the people replying. I've suffered from exteme mania for 15 plus years. I started e.c.t. 2 years ago. The first and second weeks of the treatment I had six sessions. Over the next few weeks I had them twice a week. They were tapered off to where I am now. I have maintenance ECTs every 8 weeks. I've had over 20 ect treatments, probably closer to thirty. My short term memory was effected greatly when I was having them frequently, but it always came back. After the initial series my mania was completely under control. My memory returned and I've remained in remission for two years. My memory while having the maintenance ects is only aggravated for a day. I have them on fridays and by saturday morning I'm fine again. These treatments have saved my life. The risk and thrill seeking behavior would have eventually killed me.(playing russian roulette just to see the look on peoples faces, etc.). They had already caused legal problems, and almost landed me in prison. Insanity is the only thing that kept me out of federal prison. I've been in remission for two years and leading a normal life for the first time since I was a teenager. I praise the proceedure and will continue them until I find a medication that works for me. For some medication may never work. I hope I'm not one of those few. For me the pros of ect far outway the cons. |
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| Zep
Incredible Member (2000+ posts)
2298 Posts
Gratitude: 536
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Posted - 02/22/2008 : 01:52:35
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I'm not sure that anyone should make a judgement about a particular treatment, for the simple reason that we are all individuals...and different people respond differently to any treatment.
Personally, I've had mixed results with ECT: when I was younger, it seemed to work, and the side-effects were minimal. My memory was affected, but only for the period of the treatment. The last course of treatment I had 8 years ago was not successful and was suspended due to a suicide attempt while I was recovering from the anaesthetic. So it's really not that different from drug treatments - some work, some don't, some work for a long time, others seem to lose effectiveness quickly for some people.
Zep.
Madness is merely a state of mind. |
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| Serine
Starting Member
20 Posts
Gratitude: 7
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Posted - 05/06/2008 : 21:16:57
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I am currently taking ECT treatment, and have been for the last two or three months. I have a rapidcycle bipolar, mostly mania, with constant delusions. I am unable to take any form of antipsychotic medications, due to the fact they cause amplified delusions and some form of something starts stalking me, trying to kill me. And trying to make me kill myself.
I was pretty much dead when I started the treatments and I completely lost any and all memories of my life, thus almost clearing me of my delusions. They slowly came back, along with little gifts of memory until I was able to remember my past. My journals helped as well. I too had forgotten where stores were located, when school started and got out for my kids, and aswell how to boil water...but I got it all back in a learning process very quickly.
The only thing I do not like about ECT is that when I wake up my lungs hurt and I was told that is because of the muscle relaxants: your lungs stop for awhile so they have to bag you. I do not like that, and I do not like the hurt it causes.
ECT has not cured me of my delusions, or my rapid cycling, but neither has anything else, and I want to give my psychiatrists hope. My mom says that when I have my treatment I am in a better mood.
I had 3 treatments a week for 5 weeks, then every other tuesday. When it is nearing my treatment, I am usually really irratable by then, get really depressed and suicidal, then after my treatment I go back into hypomania. |
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| yumers
Starting Member
2 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2009 : 19:39:17
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| I kept a fairly meticulous journal before and after 15 total consecutive sessions of ECT on my e-journal http://alittlespark.wordpress.com. It might give some of you a good idea about the finer details of going through ECT rather than just blanket arguments against and for the procedure. |
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| crimsonandclover
Super Member (250+ posts)
816 Posts
Gratitude: 37
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Posted - 05/12/2012 : 20:40:00
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I realize it has been several years since the last post on this thread. I would still like to add my experience. I have been depressed most of my life beginning in my teen years. I have attempted suicide several times and have been hospitalized at least 8 times as an adult. I began ECT a month ago. I have had 5 treatments so far. I had amazing results after the first treatment. I have not been depressed at all since beginning the treatments. I was not functioning my whole life was suffering. My hygiene was poor my house was a mess and I didn't want to leave the house. Since beginning ECT I have bathed daily my house is clean once again and I find reasons to leave the house daily. I have even lost a few pounds since I am so active again. I agree that everyone is different and the ECT is not for everyone. Not everyone can benefit from the same meds either. Someone mentioned a grand-mal seizure, my pdoc finds a patients threshold and only gives enough electricity to produce a 10 to 90 second seizure. Not every pdoc does it the same way and I am sure some are over doing it. As for memory loss I have not had much. My spelling has suffered some and my typing. I can still preform household duties and I have not gotten lost. I remember faces and people who greet me in the store. I even remember right before the ECT when my pdoc comes in and talks to me. Maybe I am of a small percentage who have good results. I just know that it works for me and I am going to continue my treatments. I would agree that anyone considering ECT should research it and the pdoc doing the procedure. I was fortunate enough to talk with other patients who my pdoc has treated. They also have had good results. For me it was a last resort. I have taken antidepressants for 20 years and I have tried so many I can't even count. I usually try anything new on the market and I have still been depressed. ECT is the only thing that has worked for me. |
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| farley
Starting Member
1 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2012 : 11:20:13
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| I received nine ect treatments fifteen years ago...my parents believe it saved my life. |
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| warblaster
Super Incredible Member (10000+ posts)
112498 Posts |
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Marty Luster's testimony on electroshock in N Y
