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Administrator
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Posted - 04/02/2008 :  20:08:45  Show Profile  Visit Administrator's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Reply to Topic
Dear Members,

Currently we have a "Coping With Psychopaths (Sociopaths)" forum at:

http://www.mytherapy.com/discussion/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=284

Some members have voiced their concerns to me about the direction this forum is taking.

Thus I would appreciate your views on the following questions (if you have read a few of the posts at that forum):

  • Are the discussions at the "Coping With Psychopaths (Sociopaths)" forum therapeutic or beneficial?


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Administrator
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Posted - 04/02/2008 :  20:15:11  Show Profile  Visit Administrator's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Reply to Topic
  • Are the (self-diagnosed) "sociopaths" at the "Coping With Psychopaths (Sociopaths)" forum asking to be helped?
(Please answer "No" if you think they are only wanting to talk about being sociopaths, but not taking any steps to change their behavior.)

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Administrator
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Posted - 04/02/2008 :  20:23:24  Show Profile  Visit Administrator's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Reply to Topic
  • Are the (self-diagnosed) victims of the sociopaths at the "Coping With Psychopaths (Sociopaths)" forum asking to be helped?
(Please answer "No" if you think they are only wanting to talk about being the victim of a sociopath, but not doing anything themselves to change this bad situation.)

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Administrator
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Posted - 04/02/2008 :  20:45:31  Show Profile  Visit Administrator's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Reply to Topic
Are We Looking At A Therapeutic Impass?

Sometimes therapy reaches an impass.

For example, in the treatment of an alcoholic husband and his non-alcoholic wife, therapy can reach an impass if:

  • The alcoholic husband admits that he is an alcoholic, but that he doesn't want to stop drinking.


  • The non-alcoholic wife admits that living with her alcoholic husband is harmful, but there's nothing that she is prepared to do about it.


  • Under these circumstances, therapy would fail, and no change would occur.
Some of our members are wondering if the discussions in our "Coping With Psychopaths" forum are likewise reaching an impass. They worry that:

  • The (self-diagnosed) "sociopaths" post that they are sociopaths, but they aren't taking any steps to change this.


  • The (self-diagnosed) victims of sociopaths post that living with their sociopath is harmful, but they aren't taking any steps to change this.


  • Thus have discussions in this forum reached an impass?
After you have read a few more of the posts in the "Coping With Psychopaths" forum, could you tell us what you think about that forum?

Thank you,

Phil Long M.D.
Administrator
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Zep
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Posted - 04/02/2008 :  22:42:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Reply to Topic
I'm not familiar enough with this particular forum to pass any judgement on it really. But, in general, I would have a problem with *change* being a requirement of any forum. Some individuals change, some don't, or at least not quickly. Perhaps the fact that it is a smaller forum than the bipolar forum could mean that progress is not as fast or as obvious?

My perception of the bipolar forum has been that it engenders understanding and support for all members. I suppose that much of it could be labelled 'chat' also. But chat has its therapeutic side too. And storm is right - these members need their own place to be, comfortably, otherwise they are more likely to move disruptively through the other forums.

Just my thoughts....

Zep.

Chaos, panic, disorder....my work here is done :)
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RedStar
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Posted - 04/03/2008 :  06:07:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Reply to Topic
I'm not familiar with that forum, but I am familiar with the ways that sociopaths (and borderline personality disorder) may be harmful to others. Not all, of course, as there are no absolutes. But in general they can do real psychological harm to other people.

When I think about the people on the BPD board, and our sensitivities and susceptibilities, I can see the potential for disruption at the least, and serious emotional injury at the worst, if sociopaths and those with borderline personality disorder were to transfer to our forum because they are attached to MT and have nowhere else to go.

Humans are social animals. Being social, especially with the right people, can be therapeutic in and of itself. Otherwise, why do so many therapists stress the importance of not isolating ourselves and having social contact?

Many members are withdrawn and maybe housebound and sometimes agoraphobic. For some, this IS their social outlet.

So if the only real issue is their sociability and not a serious one (such as feeding off one another to create "stronger" sociopaths or getting permission, in a sense, to act upon their impulses, thoughts, feelings), I'd vote to leave them their own board.

* The (self-diagnosed) "sociopaths" post that they are sociopaths, but they aren't taking any steps to change this.


* The (self-diagnosed) victims of sociopaths post that living with their sociopath is harmful, but they aren't taking any steps to change this.


* Thus have discussions in this forum reached an impasse?

There are members of the BPD board who are essentially the same. Will you remove our board? Will you ban those members?

I guess that I'm so grateful to have found this safe haven that I hesitate to take it away from others.

BUT - you are the trained psychiatrist. You probably have the most objective view of the situation and will make a good decision. Ultimately, I trust your judgment.

We'll still respect you, I promise.

There are no passengers on spaceship earth. We are all crew. - Marshall McLuhan
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davidt
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Posted - 04/03/2008 :  08:03:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Reply to Topic


Hi Doctor Long,

I more or less agree with everything that has been posted so far on this matter.

I think there's a good chance we could complicate matters further, if we don't leave well alone. To paraphrase the late LBJ., I'd rather have people inside the tent peeing out ... that on the outside peeing in to the tent.

Lets face it, no individual is a text book case. We all have a permutation of sorts when it comes down to behavior. The human condition isn't that straight forward.

In conclusion as long as members respect one an other, don't trigger major disruption, 'rant' religion or post pornography, I see no problem with the concept of "Live and Let Live!"

In the final analysis to quote Redstar .....

BUT - you are the trained psychiatrist. You probably have the most objective view of the situation and will make a good decision. Ultimately, I trust your judgment.

We'll still respect you, I promise.
And so will I! David


If you work these communities ... there's a good chance these communities will work for you!
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firebird
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Posted - 04/07/2008 :  13:50:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Reply to Topic
For one, I don't think the sociopaths at that forum are asking to be helped. Personally I doubt if many of them actually are sociopaths. From my experience of their thinking a real sociopath would not be seen dead on a mental health website, believing arrogantly its a place for losers and the weak and not them. I think many of these self profess psychopaths are young kids who have watched too many re-runs of TV psychopath "Dexter" and think its way cool and somehow enpowering. I can also imagine some may be identifying with the dangerous no morality psychopath to cover feelings of suppressed anger, vulnerability and hurt of their past or present, a kind of impotent anger.
Either way, I find nothing of value to be learnt in their role-play.
It wouldn't bother me if the forum was closed. I still think there is a need for victims of psychopaths to be able to post. I remember when I was young being in bad relationships simply because I thought the treatment was normal. I grew up with it, I thought it was normal because its all I ever heard and any of my thoughts to the contrary were disrespectful to the abuser. It took time for validation of others to begin to believe otherwise. So even if the victim is unwilling to immediately change it doesn't mean that the accumulated effect of validation and advise will not have some future positive effect in the end. Believe me, it takes a while to make a child feel unworthy and an equally long time to convince them as an adult, that they are worthy.

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I need help
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Posted - 04/09/2008 :  06:35:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Reply to Topic
Some aren't "Role Playing". Some just don't know what to do and how to get help.
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firebird
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Posted - 04/09/2008 :  07:20:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Reply to Topic
Sorry, I just don't buy that, dear. Psychopaths truly don't believe they need help and they NEVER admit to feeling/being helpless. If they ever espouse such statements such as these its because they want YOU to think it and they are trying to get something from YOU. Or are playing the helpless card to avoid responsibility for immoral behavior i.e. " Sorry, I don't know why I hurt you, I couldn't help myself, I know I need help but I don't know what to do, can you forgive poor me" - sound familiar?.

I am guessing you are not talking of yourself but talking in defense of someone close to you?

I am not unsympathetic towards someone looking for help, but with people with this character disorder you just HAVE to be realistic for your own sake.

If you are struggling and in a relationship with someone with this disorder you really need to talk about it because these folks can lie and manipulate without any qualms

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